My 1999 Caddy
In my Change Your Mindset and Save a Fortune: 200,000 Miles is the New 100,000 Miles post, I bragged about my plans to save fortune by driving my sweet 1999 Cadillac DeVille at least 200,000 miles. Well, we have trouble in paradise: my Caddy has an engine flaw…a head gasket leak that cannot be repaired; i.e. “I need to replace my engine.”
To my credit, I did factor in the possibility of a major repair in my 200,000 mile post. In fact, I used a $10,000 “worst case scenario”, assuming that both the engine and the transmission needed to be replaced. My premise was that one could still come out fine by spending the repair money and continuing to drive the car.
Now I am going to find out if I put my money where my mouth is.
Read along with me as I think this through. I will be asking for your thoughts at the end of this post.
Factors to consider:
- I love the car.
I really do. It drives like a dream and makes me feel like a king every time I get behind the wheel.
- It has 112,000 miles on it.
Yes, that is a lot, but not for an 11 year old car.
- The replacement engine will cost … gulp … $5,700.
This is the cost of a Jasper rebuilt engine, including installation. Northstar engines have a design flaw that makes head gasket problems quite common, but the Jasper rebuilt engine will have corrected the flaw. It will have a three year, unlimited mileage warrantee with it.
- I can drive the car now.
It still runs great. But because it is slowly losing anti-freeze, I can’t trust it on any long trips without chancing it to overheat. It is therefore relegated to short trips.
- No debt.
Whatever choice we make will not involve borrowing money.
My choices are:
- Continue to drive it on short trips and spend no money on it.
I imagine the leak would gradually get worse, but I could probably milk it along for months or maybe years.
- Do a “quick fix”.
There are many sealant type products available which claim to fix a leaking head gasket. My understanding is that they might work for a while, but can’t be depended on as a long term solution. Besides, they might not work and could clog the heater core or damage the engine. At least the Caddy is drivable now. Experimenting with a miracle cure could render it inoperable.
- Sell it and become a one car family.
Obviously, it is worth very little – maybe $1,000. Who would want an 11 year old car that needs an engine? But there is merit in scaling back to one car. It would take some sacrifices for both of us, but Janice and I could make it work. Her car is older than mine, so the money I would be spending to repair the Cadillac could go toward an upgrade of our newer family car.
- Junk it.
I was not able to pin down a junk value, but I am assuming it would not be much more than $1,000.
- Fix it.
Follow my logic here: if, while shopping for a car, I found a near mint 1999 Cadillac DeVille De Elegance (premium model) for $5,700 with a rebuilt and warranteed engine, I would be inclined to buy it. It is difficult to assign a Kelly Blue Book value to a car with a rebuilt engine, but this model with this mileage with original engine books at about $4,900 Private Party or $6,400 Retail. A newly rebuilt engine would make it more valuable, but how much more? Would it compare to the same model with 50,000 miles, which is about $6,900 Private Party or $8,300 Retail? Not sure. Interestingly, the same car at 200,000 miles books at $3,400…certainly more than I can get for it now.
Simple math is this: if I spend $5,700, drive it for about 90,000 miles and sell it for $3,400, I would be getting 90,000 miles for $2,300…about 3 cents a mile.
On the other hand, if I could sell it now for $1,000 and add that same $5,700, I would be able to purchase a $6,700 used car. With no engine warrantee. And with no assurance that there are not other hidden problems, which brings on another factor: I know this Cadillac. I have babied it for years and am confident there are no hidden “surprises” waiting to be discovered.
We would still be needing to upgrade Janice’s car, but if the Caddy is fixed and reliable, that upgrade would not need to happen immediately.
And remember: I love the car.
What will we do?
We are not sure yet, but Jan and I agree that we will be on the same page before we decide. Right now we are leaning toward upgrading Janice’s car, milking the Caddy along at least till spring, and then deciding whether to replace the engine at that time.
OK. Now tell me what you think. What did I overlook? I confess that it is difficult for me to be totally objective because I have an attachment to this Caddy, so I covet your thoughts. Would I be throwing good money after bad? What do you think I should do? What would you do?
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Joe,
Man, I bought for cheap…a bit over a thousand this 99 Deville…cleaned it up (a lot of cleaning but i had the time) and got a new engine…yup, i am def. clouded in my mind….with the new engine it drives like a dream…oh YES, the jasper engine was the only one the recommended mechanic would put in, but I have triple A plus….i say to myself in 10 years it will be an antique (like me) so it might still be worth a few thousand even then …if i keep it up/only park it in the garage etc. I think when you are over 55 (as i am) you should have fun…and Moo-ella (i call her Moo-ella deville after the 101 Dal. song) is the ride! (P>S> i know how to save money and scrimp but why when you are having fun..the gas mileage on a trip was around 25 mpg. ! too) Jan
@ Camille,
I would do exactly what your mom is doing: take it to several mechanics, get a solid diagnosis and price quote (s) before deciding what to do. If everything else on the car is in great condition, a repair (new engine?) may be the best option. Let us know what she decides.
@Jan,
I like the way you think. You are the only one in my comment stream who actually footed the tab for a new engine. I am glad you are happy with the results, and I LOVE the name Moo-ella! I think we take better care of our stuff when we name it. You might enjoy my attempt at humor post “Stretch the Life of Your Lawn Mower by Giving Him a Name.”
Thanks Joe…not sure that indicates my “stupidity” level or not…(only one to foot the bill) anyhow so far so good.. gas mileage on trips (about 24mpg), great pickup, easy tunes..cheap or free cassettes of oldies….i like your lawnmower article, just not doing so well in that dept, ..finally opted for an exercize machine…hey, i love the quietness and the safety..sometimes i mow barefooted just because.
.it’s a “reel” mower….kinda a conversation item too. jan
just realized i had repeated information..sign of old age setting in
Jan,
No, I was not inferring that buying the new engine for Moo-ella was an indicator of gray matter deficit. To the contrary, I admire you for driving a car you love and buying that engine to make it a sweet ride. I am actually jealous! One of these days, maybe I will do the same, but for now I just keep driving my Caddy on short trips.
It’s ok, I just wonder (most of my time) about doing the right thing.
We also love the 99 Devilles, Problem, GM used plastic head gaskets in most of their under 5.0 engines, hence, anti-freeze leaking into electrical components etc. My perfect Chevy Venture had this same problem, cost $1200 plus to fix top-end, lasted one month and the bottom-end blew out,,broken crank. Sold my $6000 car for $1000, because what was left was pristine. GM Sucks.
Put in a 350 with rear wheel drive, or buy a Marquis, not as cute, but reliable.
I have one as well and I just love it..First take a trip or call your nearest junk yard. At 11 years the Devilles are showing up some with engines and trans-axles in good shape..You should be able to pick the set complete for around $500- $600 and another $300-$400 to have it installed at a local garage ( not a dealership ) See if you can get the smaller of the two engines ( 403 I believe ) they have the solid engine block verses the larger engine that has the open block with piston sleeves..less chance of head problems.. you might want to consider asking the mechanic what it wold cost to go ahead and replace the head gaskets while the engine is out of the car..less expensive that way.. also check for leaks at the front left side of the engine ,Hard to see it could be the water pump..Just replaced mine myself about two hr job fairly easy job if yours has the smaller engine.. Your Caddy should be worth around $5700 – $6500 ..worth fixing..in my opinion..
Thanks Sam,
Even from a junk yard, I have not been able to track down a decent used Northstar engine for less than $1,000. Most are more like $1,500. Two different local mechanics (not the dealer) quoted me $1,400 to remove the existing engine and put a used one in. All of a sudden I have nearly $3,000 invested in an engine which could well have the same issues my current one does.
I would gladly pay $1,000 total for a used engine installed, but not $3,000.
SELL IT AS IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it has a head gasket problem, I don’t quite understand why you need a new engine. I personally would have replaced the head gasket (costs 50-75$) so do the math, about $60 for the head gasket if you do it yourself of about $500 for a professional install versus buying a new engine and spending $5,700. But that’s just my opinion
John,
I agree that simply replacing the head gasket makes sense. However (remember that I am not mechanically inclined), I have spoken to five different mechanics, including a GM service manager, who all tell me that the head gasket in the Northstar engine cannot be successfully repaired. None would offer ANY warranty, and all said that the engine would need to be removed and replaced ($1,000 plus) to repair the head gasket. I could do that and immediately sell the car, but not with a clear conscience.
Just had to chime in. Thinking of buying a 1990 Jeep Cherokee that needs an engine. It’s the perfect one for me, one owner, great condition, hard to find locally, basic model, 4 cyl, 5 speed manual, 4×4 and super clean. Should I replace engine because I like that old boxy safari look or gamble on another that could have the same issue in a matter of months that I didn’t even like as much. This rig is what I would have ordered right off the lot. I guess deep down… I’d like to think that America is still building something worth a little sweat and tears. For me, I’m gonna do some horse trading for the truck and get her back on the road where she belongs. (good carma goes a long way)
Mostly just wanted so say that I appreciate your good conscience. It will all work out and money isn’t everything, pat her dashboard. : )
sean — haha. I DO pat my Caddy’s dashboard…regularly! Hoping all works out for you and the 1990 Cherokee you are thinking about buying. I think you answered your own question about buying it when you said “this rig is what I would have ordered right off the lot”.
Let me know what you decide to do.
I’m surprised that your head gasket trouble is un-fixable. Most of the time I hear of this issue happening and it only costing $1,500- $2,200 depending on where you go. The parts alone are roughly $700 and the rest is all in labor. I found a website who specializes in this and will do the job for $2,200 but it is in Canada and I’m not sure of your location.
http://www.northstarperformance.com/hg.php
hopefully it helps.
Nick,
Thanks for the tip. I checked into the shop in Canada and seriously considered having them do the work. It seems that they (unlike nearly every mechanic and machine shop I have talked to) have come up with a repair that they will stand behind. However, when I factored in the cost of removing my old engine and having it shipped to Canada, it was still going to cost me $2500 to $3000. So I went ahead and splurged for a new rebuilt Jasper engine — parts and labor came to $5200. Jasper has had a great reputation for many years, and their 3 year 100,000 mile warranty covers parts and labor. Did I do the right thing? Time will tell, but right now I am happy to have my Caddy back on the road again.
Get rid of the car.
It is not this fix that kills you, it is the next fix, and the next, and the next. In other words, this car is a money pit.
If it is a 1995 Accord, like the one I have, I would say go ahead and fix it. Considering it is a GM, I say get rid of it. Mind you, these are not my words, but exact words from a mechanic quoted in a bankrate.com article.
Jun Yan — You may be right. Time will tell. But I recently made the big decision: I put a new engine in my beloved Caddy. You can read about it in “Why I Put a New Engine in My Old Cadillac“.
I would have made sure everything else was in perfect shape before
installing a new engine. We’re facing the same issue with a 2003 Town &Country van that we really like. That’s how I ended up on your blog. $5200 sounds really high to me, but then again I’m no expert on Northstar engines. I’ll be checking back to see how your decision works out for you
frank,
I have owned this car for about five years, have done all maintenance and fixed everything that has needed fixing. So it is in pretty much perfect shape. About the $5200 for the Northstar engine: yes, it is a pricey engine, and difficult to remove and replace. Most quotes I received were over $6000!
I hope all goes well with your Town and Country. I would recommend that you consider Jasper before making your final decision…their warranty covers both parts and labor. Most are for parts only.
We bought our 1999 Cadillac DeVille with 80K miles on it, because the car was in such good condition. At about 156K miles, after our car shut down on the highway, we were told we had a blown head gasket & the engine needed to be replaced. We filled up the radiator & drove 150 miles to another Cadillac dealer, & the car ran just fine — used very little water. That should have been our first clue it was not a blown head gasket. The second dealer confirmed the first dealer’s diagnosis, so we had them replace the engine with a used one. Neither dealer could get a new engine. At about 170K miles the same 2 dealers again said we had a blown head gasket. The second dealer also said we had a slight leak in our radiator. We put in a new radiator & have never again had a problem with the engine. We now have 308K miles on the car & it runs great. P.S. We still love the car. We just don’t love the dealers.
Wow! I wouldn’t like those dealers either! We had our radiator pressure tested by about five different mechanics, none of whom could find a radiator leak…thus the head gasket diagnosis and the subsequent new (Jasper rebuilt) engine. I only have 115,000 right now (less than 1,000 on my new engine), so I will be thrilled if I can get 200,000 miles. Or more thrilled with 300,000 like you have done. I love that you still love the car…we must be kindred spirits.
You may want to check out my more recent post “Why I Put a New Engine in My Old Cadillac”.
When I googled “should I have my engine rebuilt/replaced?” I got you. My car is not a classic Caddy, but a 2001 Honda Passport (read Isuzu Rodeo). It has 144,000 miles, had regular maintenance (up until about 2007 when the recession arrived on the OBX – then it was a bit sporadic, but not neglectful). Last spring, I had a pully mount freeze, broke the serpentine belt, had it fixed along with replacing the water pump and other stuff I don’t remember right now. Drove fine until right before Christmas, when it spewed it’s life’s blood coolant at a long stoplight. Limped one block to a service station. They weren’t able to get it to cool down and when they put in new coolant, it spilled out the overflow. Since getting it to my mechanic, they’ve replace the T-stat and hoses and looked for other leaks, ruling out a major head gasket leak. Drove the car 300 miles without incident. Started it the next day and it started to overheat again after 5 miles. Gave it water, antifreeze and a partial bottle of Stop Leak and limped back the 10 miles I had driven. Next morning, heading back on the 300 mile trip home, it started to overheat, gave it more antifreeze and made it home without incident. Next day – again – it started to bubble over. Since then I’ve had the radiator replaced – still have the coolant pushed out the overflow, which the mechanic says indicates a flow problem. They’ve used my car as a medical cadaver of sorts and I’m faced now with abandoning it or buying another car. I have no trust in a car that will cost $7,000, so looked at other, more expensive options. I thought I’d made the decision, but I’m now leaning more toward a new engine, since I’ve got so much other new stuff on the car. Thoughts?
First…I am NOT a mechanic! But, assuming you need an engine, here is a tip to help you decide.
1. Figure out what the car is worth as is.
2. Get several quotes on the new engine — installed. Note: Jasper rebuilt engines are top of the line and have a great warranty.
3. Add 1 and 2. Let’s assume they come to $4,500.
4. Ask yourself, “If I did not have this Passport and I saw it for sale (with a new engine) for $4,500, would I buy it?”
Your answer to that question is a good indicator of what you should do.
By the way, I ended up putting a Jasper engine in my Caddy and I am very happy about my decision. You can read about it by clicking “Why I Put a New Engine in My Old Cadillac”
Hello again, Joe
Love to hear it, you the man!! Were not a throw away society after all. Cheers
I really loved your aricle on your car i am actually having the same problem right now with my 2000 jetta with the short trips to minimize engine damage, selling it for a grand, or investing in a new engine, fixing the head for an arm and a leg and have the engine still fail on me i also am in a pickle trying to decide what to do.
Angel,
Keeping in mind that I am NOT a mechanic, maybe the tips I gave to Lisa (immediately above your comment) will help with your decision.
1. Figure out what the car is worth as is.
2. Get several quotes on the new engine — installed. Note: Jasper rebuilt engines are top of the line and have a great warranty.
3. Add 1 and 2. Let’s assume they come to $4,500.
4. Ask yourself, “If I did not have this Jetta and I saw it for sale (with a new engine) for $4,500, would I buy it?”
Your answer to that question is a good indicator of what you should do.
By the way, I ended up putting a Jasper engine in my Caddy and I am very happy about my decision. You can read about it by clicking “Why I Put a New Engine in My Old Cadillac”
I share our problem, mine is a bit different. I have a 97 park ave that I just decided to put a new jasper engine into. It ran beautifully until my grandson totaled the car with just 4000 miles on the new engine. The car is drivable but looks terrible, so I am between trying to sell it as is for the engine,or find a general motors car that a 3.8 V6 engine fits.
Wrecking the car with the new engine is a scenario I hadn’t considered. Bummer. Would the Jasper warranty still apply to a new owner if you sold the car? If you wanted to re-use the engine, I am guessing there are lots of GM cars around that the 3.8 would fit in. However, the 3.8 is such a reliable engine that by the time the engine went bad, the body would probably be in bad shape too. In other words, finding a pristine GM body with a bad 3.8 engine might be a challenge. Let us know what you decide to do.
I am very happy with my decision to buy a Jasper engine for my 2002 Monte Carlo LS. It was replaced about a year ago when it had 147k on it. My Monte Carlo has 165k on it now and runs like it did right off the lot.
I also had the transmission rebuilt, so the car has gone through a good overhaul. I’m sure I spent more money on it than most people, but I still feel it was worth it. Total was $4800 for the Jasper motor – installed. Then another $2000 to rebuild the transmission. Still beats a new $30k vehicle.
I call my 2002 Monte Carlo my 2011 Monte Carlo now..
Mark — You are a kindred spirit! You may (or may not) have figured that I went ahead and put the Jasper engine in my Caddy. You can read about it by clicking “Why I Put a New Engine in My Old Cadillac”. Maybe I should follow your lead and start calling my 1999 Cadillac my 2011 Cadillac!
my northstar makes clickin sounds, is it a gasket oil leak or what i toke my caddy to mechanics an they told me i need a new engine, how did this happen – ???
We replaced the 110K engine in a 2000 GMC Jimmy with a Jasper Reconditioned engine and the transmission was also rebuilt by AAMCO. We are the original owners if the Jimmy, no kids, accidents, smoking or pets in the SUV and it was in primo overall condition. We are now a few months from the end of 100K OR 3 yr warranty with only another 13K miles added to the Jasper engine, primarily a winter vehicle in the Rocky Mtns. Is it worth more than standard blue book as we begin to sell it compared to all the others with 140K or more miles? We think so. You?
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