photo credit: gwdexter
I grew up in an era when a car was considered junk if it ever made it to 100,000 miles. Even the manufacturers weren’t optimistic about their cars achieving the 100,000 mile plateau – the odometers maxed out at 99,999.
My 1966 Plymouth Sport Fury, despite tune ups and carburetor rebuilds, refused to run in cold weather. I sold it at the 85,000 mile mark. We purchased our 1971 Volkswagen bus new and babied it for 70,000 miles before we dumped it (the air cooled engine would not stop sending exhaust smells through the ductwork). These were not isolated instances; my parents seldom owned a vehicle which made it past the 100,000 mile barrier.
The 100,000 mile mindset
Because automobiles just didn’t hold up so well in the fifties, sixties, and seventies, buyers rightfully developed what I call the 100,000 mile mindset. Owners planned to get rid of their cars before that odometer rolled over, knowing that even if it still ran well, the mileage would frighten buyers away. The “smart” thing was to buy a new car every seven years, because, at 15,000 miles a year for seven years, the car would be worn out.
Changing to a 200,000 mile mindset
Even though today’s automobiles are better made and last much longer, old mindsets die hard. We are still afraid of that 100,000 mile mark. Yes, one can realistically expect more maintenance issues as the mileage increases, but more maintenance is far different than the breakdowns and unreliability of those clunkers of yesteryear. Today’s vehicles, properly maintained, should last 200,000 miles. My 1986 Ford Ranger was an eye-opener for me. It had 36,000 miles on it when I bought it in 1989 for $7,500, and had 220,000 miles when I sold it for $2,000. Admittedly, it was needing work at that stage in its life, but my point is that if 200,000 miles was realistic on a vehicle 20 years ago, it is more realistic today. If you still subscribe to the 100,000 mindset, it is time to change it to 200,000 miles.
Thinking it through
Think through this philosophy with me. If we base the life of a car at 200,000 miles, then think in terms of what you are paying for the remaining life of the car. I will use my sweet 1999 Cadillac DeVille as an example. The new price in 1999 was about $40,000. When I purchased it three years ago for $7,200 it had 64,000 miles on it. If we go by the old 100,000 mile mindset, we would say that I got the car for 18% of its original price while it has 36% of its life left…not bad. However, we know that this Caddy will go way more than 100,000 miles, so applying the new 200,000 mile mindset indicates that I paid 18% of the original price for a vehicle that still has 68% of its life left. I like the way this sounds!
Money in your pocket
Continuing with the Cadillac numbers, the ownership cost for the first 64,000 miles was $32,800 ($40,000 – $7,200), making the cost per mile to be $0.5125. Assuming that I drive my baby for 200,000 miles and I can sell it at that point for $3,500 (KBB private party value for my model at 200,000 miles), my ownership cost will be only $3,700 ($7,200 – $3,500) for 136,000 miles, or only $0.027 per mile.
Now…at this point things get a bit dicey because I realize that a higher mileage car will have more repairs. So, assuming worse case scenario, if I had to replace both the engine and the transmission (rebuilt with 100,000 mile warrantees) I would spend around $10,000 in repairs, bumping my cost per mile from $0.027 to $0.10.
Lifetime savings
If I were to extrapolate my Cadillac numbers over a lifetime (assuming one drives 500,000 miles), owner A (who buys new and trades at 64,000 miles) will spend $256,250 while Owner B (who buys at 64,000 miles and drives to the 200,000 mile mark) will spend only $50,000…a savings of over $200,000 in a lifetime. These numbers, while huge, are not unreasonable. Liz Pulliam Weston, in her book “Deal With Your Debt,” estimates that the typical person could save $250,000 over a lifetime by driving a car 10 years instead of 5 years.
Why not?
Why don’t people keep their cars longer? Why do they trade or sell a car that is perfectly dependable? I don’t know. My guess is they get bored with the same car, or they want to impress someone, or get the newest and fanciest. I believe that many are still hanging on to the outdated 100,000 mile mindset.
Summary
Drivers used to push a car to get that magic 100,000 miles out of it, knowing it would be junk at that point. But I assert that the typical car today is more trustworthy at 200,000 miles than the yesteryear clunkers were at 100,000.
Therefore, 200,000 miles is the new 100,000. Change your mindset to 200,000 miles and you will save a fortune over your lifetime.
How many miles do you try to put on your cars? If the car is still dependable, why do you get rid of it? Do you succumb to the 100,000 mile mindset?
Joe – You’re absolutely correct. We just got rid of a 1986 Buick with 325,000 miles on it. Our other car (1991 Honda) has 222,000 miles and we just replaced the timing belt and we are looking to get over 300,000 with it. To replace the Buick we bought a new (for us) 2005 Nissan that has 75,000 miles on it that should last us for another 10 years or so. It looks and drives like it is brand new.
Hey Joe,
The 100,ooo mile mindset (160,000 kilometre mindset here north of the border) must be where the car sales people derived their buyers’ “itch cycle” from. The “itch cycle” is the average number of years an automobile owner will wait before trading their car in for a new one. A good salesperson who sold you your last car is supposed to get in touch with you before you go somewhere else, close to your itch cycle, and inform you of new models, invite you in for test drives, etc.
For us, it seams, foreign is the way to go. I beat the crap out of our cars, and my wife’s 97 civic is still going strong being tossed from owner to owner and having at least 2 people learn to drive standard with her.
Great post, interesting and aha. 7 am and I’ve learned some history.
Cheers,
Guy
@Steven and Debra,
You two have pushed the envelope another 100,000 miles. Maybe we should be talking about the 300,000 mile mindset! All of those “extra” miles are nearly free! My daughter just paid $360 to put new timing belts on her 1992 Honda Accord. It now has 186,000 miles, so she is aiming for that 300,000 mark. Maybe someone (you?) should start the 300,000 mile club…sort of a status symbol!
@Guy,
Yes, a good salesperson will use that “itch cycle” to induce owners to get the itch even if they don’t have it already. I suppose I am immune because I no longer buy new cars, and the cars I do buy are private party transactions. Based on your wife’s 97 Civic, the itch isn’t affecting you too much. By the way, my son just bought a sweet 97 Civic…100K miles, new timing belt and no dents. He paid $3500 and plans to drive it at least another 100,000.
I am honored that you are reading my blog at 7 AM! Thanks!
Couldn’t agree with you more. Cars are made so much better these days that if you perform the recommended maintenance you should be able to get 200K miles out of them and save yourself a boat-load of money on car costs.
Biz of Life,
Yes, it is clear that people can indeed save a boatload of money by driving to the 200K mark.
So here is my question: Why don’t more people do this? Any thoughts?
Joe, I LOVE LOVE LOVE this post. My husbands (2003) car has 50,000 + miles and my 1998 car has around 100,000. We will drive them both AS LONG AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. Forget 100K, I’m moving to the 200K + mindset? why run over cash with your tires?
Barb,
Thanks for the kudos. So…you two will be keeping those cars a few more years (your husband’s care is practically new)…and saving money all the time. Way to go!
This post resonates with those who have responded thus far, so maybe I am asking the wrong people this question: Why don’t more people do this? Do you have any thoughts?
I go back and forth on the issue of driving a car into the ground vs. just leasing. In my house we are driving my car into the ground and leasing my wife’s.
Today, LITERALLY JUST 2 HOURS AGO, I dropped my car off for brake pads ($70) , 2 rotors (200), Flush the brake fluid (80) and Flush power fluid (80) = $420. This is on top of the other 60K mile stuff I am supposed to do.
I just haven’t read a good study about leasing vs buying the car.
The Wife’s last leased car (she just got one) had a couple oil changes and on brake pad, and that was it.
Evan,
Of course this post was written to compare the cost of driving a car fewer miles versus driving it (as you say) into the ground. I have never leased a car, so I can’t claim first hand experience. But let me ask: Are you saying you wouldn’t get into all of that 60K maintenance expenses with a leased car? If not, is it because you just don’t keep it that long before the lease expires?
Sounds like comparing leasing to buying is a good idea for a post. Hmmm.
If not, is it because you just don’t keep it that long before the lease expires?
– Wife’s car went back last time around 35K miles. So Yes, it is because the car goes back way before anything really goes wrong (and if it does most cars come with a 36K mile warranty).
It would be an excellent post, but a lot of research is necessary (i.e. average work needed…car prices…lease prices…)
I suspect people don’t keep their cars longer for three main reasons:
1. They don’t realize that cars CAN last a long time.
2. They want to buy something else and are using the age or the mileage of their cars as a justification. (I nearly fell into that trap myself.)
3. They need an expensive repair and assume that will just be the start of repair after repair, not realizing that they can spend a lot less in a major repair once a year or so than they ever would on a new car.
Jackie,
Great points. I notice you say “they” in all three of these reasons, so I assume you don’t use this rationale (although reason number 2 almost tripped you up).
How about you? Any high mileage car stories?
Great post! I sold my 98′ Cavalier in 2007 for $500 with about 175k miles on it! The car cost about $12,500 in 1999 brand new (note: I will never purchase a brand new car again)! I almost made it into the 200k club, and now I’m reading about the 300k club in the comments! My wife has a 93′ Camry with about 170k miles on it, and we are trying to push it until it dies (unfortunately the A/C needs to be completely replaced). I now drive an 05′ Impala with 89k and counting.
This is a great idea, and a great way to look at car purchases.
Khaleef,
Way to go! I too have purchased new cars in the past, but don’t plan to ever again. I just have better things to do with my money!
Tell me: are you planning to replace that A/C in your wife’s ’93 Camry?
Joe,
Since we are still in debt, we will have to save up for it. Everything else on the car is fine, so I definitely want to replace it – we just kept getting the A/C charged for the last few years, but now the compressor is shot.
I still think fixing is better than buying in most cases.
Khaleef,
Good call in my opinion. When we run into these major repairs, we try to think of them in terms of car payments. For instance, for a $700 repair, we would say, “That is what we would be paying for two months anyway if we had car payments.” Then we appreciate our paid for cars all the more!
I am thinking you have a very special wife, if she is willing to keep driving the car with no A/C until you save up enough to pay for the repair.
Hey I have a Ford Ranger. 93000 on it now. 11,000 when I bought it 9 yrs ago. I hope I can hit 200K with it.
Transmission went up at 80,000…. one major repair there out of the way.
Arthur,
That’s the attitude! Instead of whining about having to replace a transmission, you count it as one major repair out of the way. By the way, did your transmission have a warranty on it?
I hope your Ford Ranger lasts as well as mine did!
Rayne,
I love it. Some quick math: if you drove those first two cars half of their total mileage, you spent $11,600 to drive your first three cars 435,000 miles. Not including repairs, your cost has been less than 3 cents a mile!
I understand wanting some better reliability now that you have kids, but you understand what I am saying about 200,000 miles being the new 100,000.
What kind of domestic car did you buy and how many miles do you plan to put on it (now that you have kids)?
“We plan to drive the van until repairs per year are equivalent to car payments”. I had never heard it put that way before. My hunch is that it will be a long time before you make that many repairs, and if you do, you might want to hang on to it just because you know what has been fixed.
About the Ford…YES. That baby will indeed last forever. Your sons might be teaching their sons how to drive a stick in the F150.
My car is nearing 100K and I admit that I am getting weary. I keep a very tight schedule with my oil changes and maintenance schedules. Because of that my car has never given me any major problems. But oh my, at 100K… something is bound to happen!
Well, this 90K maintenance is gonna cost me an arm and a leg. Plus they want to change my timing belt. Due for back breaks. *sigh* $1,5000 for everything. Costly beast. 😉
But, its been good to me and we’re going to do all that in segments as to ease the financial pain.
Hello!
Love your article–my car made it to 228,000 last year before finally calling it quits…and even then I sold it for $400 on craigslist!!! I originally bought it six years early for cash for $1500–what a great ride.
Miss that car!!!
@Money Funk,
“But oh my, at 100K… something is bound to happen!” I am not picking on you, but that statement is so common of the 100,000 mile mindset. You have done a great job with regular maintenance, and you say your car has never given you any major problems. I admit, $1500 is a big chunk of money, but it should buy you many more miles on a car that has been relatively trouble free. Good plan to get it all done incrementally. Here is the big one: How long do you plan on hanging on to it after you get the work done?
@Amanda,
Let’s see. You bought it for $1500, drove it for six years, sold it for $400 with 228,000 miles on it and you miss it. Wow! You get it! Just curious: what replacement car did you buy? How many miles does it have on it?
Well, I plan on hanging onto it til it kurplunks! No more car payments. My son is almost at the driving age. So we are talking about passing it on to him. But then that 100K mindset kicks in… LOL. And if I do buy another car for myself, it will be that 84 white toyota landcruiser I want paid for by cash. 🙂
I like your phrases “nor more car payments” and “paid for by cash”. Those go well with car ownership. And you are going to let your son rack up those many miles on your paid for car. Good plan! He might still be driving it when he finishes college! About the 84 Landcruiser you are eying…are you saying a 26 year old vehicle has low enough miles on it to keep you happy for now? Maybe you really are developing that 200,000 mile mindset.
I just read your article. My friends know I hate to get any kind of debt, I have enough as it is, im single and have no kids or wife.
I did buy a brand new vehicle in 2001, im sentimental about it because its the first and only brand new vehicle ive ever had. Its a Ford F150, i got it for 19000 off the showroom floor, paid it off in 3 years, ithe payment was under 200 a month, it was just a base model with a v6. Im still driving it now in 2011, ten years later and it just turned over 90,000. Not only have I done regular maintenance….when things come up, I google search and use youtube to see how to do repairs….and do them myself!! I installed new rotors and brake pads for the grand total of around 350 dollars, that included tools, and then used the same tools, to install new intake gaskets and isolator bolts, all by using the internet. The parts cost me sixty two dollars total and it took me two days to learn it, and it worked ( i had a lean code and found a how-to fix on the internet.)
The truck is in perfect shape and is garaged or shedded still.
I also received a 1983 pontiac bonneville that was my mothers, she is still alive, jsut cant drive anymore, and it had new paint in 2003 and a new motor in 2002 at around 95,00 miles. It has needed a few fixes, again i go online, order the parts myself, and learn to do it myself, including doing an ac charge, and redoing the drum rear brakes. And put new tires on it. So now, i have two vehicles that i can rely on, both paid for.
I admit i was stressing on my truck at 90000, but the dealers arent helpful on trading, and i love my truck and just am very attached to it. I came from nothing and had nothing the year before i got it, it was a symbol of career achievement to me, and that i finally could afford soemthing, its way to hard to give up, and easier to put a new transmission, or motor, or rearend if those wear out in the long run, and cheaper. (My high school ag teeacher drove his ford f100 for 30 years, still has it, just gets those things put on it about ever 8 or 10 years or so with some repaint work.)
great article.
Nazareth,
You should get many more years and miles out of that sweet Ford pickup! I once drove a Ford Ranger 220,000 miles and didn’t take care of it nearly as well as you do your truck.
Great job doing all that work yourself. Just knowing you can fix vehicles yourself instead of paying someone a fortune will be an incentive to drive them longer. Maybe even 30 years like your Ag teacher. 🙂
Haha, I’m already looking forward to the 200,000 mile milestone. 2005 Malibu, bought in March of 2007 with just over 30,000. I figure at my current rate of driving, I’ll pass that point in early Spring, 2014. (just shy of 130K on the clock now.) Score one for regular maintenance and a lack of abuse- other then wear and tear items (tires, battery, brakes, etc) my repairs on this car have been… ZERO.
Those Rangers do last forever, don’t they? I sold my ’90 at 198K mostly because my 70ish-mile round trip commute was starting to get painful as far as gas goes. It needed some transmission work at the time but the engine (the V6 version) easily had another 50,000 left in it.
@Gruntwilligar,
Wishing you great success with your Malibu. I have a nephew who is doing exactly the same thing…a 2005? Malibu that he drives for his daily 70 mile round trip commute. He also has about 130,000 on his and is hoping for many more miles.
We just bought a fully loaded Windstar SEL (over $30k new) for $6,000, which includes a bumper to bumper 24 month, 24,000 mile warranty. It is in perfect condition, but it had 103,000 miles. Hopefully, I can drive it another 100,000 miles…cheap transportation.
The Ranger I put 220,000 miles on was an ’86 5 speed 4×4. I loved that truck!
John,
That is the best car story I have heard…maybe ever! Free car for 8 years and more free parts if needed. I love your ingenuity and gumption. One question (well, actually two): Are you married? If so, what does the Mrs. think about the free parts in your backyard?
Awesome post. I had no idea those kinds of dollars were involved. In 2006 I bought a 2004 Saab 9-5 wagon for our family car because they were excellent CPO used-car deals ($18K) and the extra CPO warranty gave me enough time to decide if the car was going to give me trouble (which would be covered under warranty), in which case I’d get rid of it before the warranty was up, or if it would be a reliable car that would take my family to 300K. We’re at 126K now and still going strong and reliable! Loved the car so much I actually bought a 2003 Saab 9-5 Aero with 203K on it (bought it at 170K) for my commuter car. It was obviously a highway car and had regular oil changes and maintenance. All I did was new V-Belt, brakes and shocks/struts. It drives like new. I have an independent mechanic who works on Saabs and that keeps my costs down as well. I am definitely getting the “itch” on the wagon though because I want us to have a reliable family car for long trips. Although I have no reason to doubt the wagon because it’s been 100% reliable and cheap to maintain (about the same cost as any other GM car), that 120K on the clock really toys with your psyche. I don’t mind the high miles on my commuter car — anything happens and I’ll just dump it, but for the family car that prevailing thought that cars are done at 100K is really hard to overcome psychologically speaking, you know? But we’re doing our best. Love the low insurance rates on the Saabs, the low maintenance, and solid feel! Euro driving at a GM price! Keep up the great work!
One more thing — on that new Windstar. Make sure you Google Windstar Recall. There have been issues with the rear axle breaking. This is a major major issue. You don’t say what year yours was, but if you got it for $6K, it retailed for over $30K and you only have 103K miles on it, make sure the undercarriage is not rusty, especially if it was a US Northern vehicle. Very glad to hear you got a warranty with it, but I think Ford is making good on them all these years later anyway. Just thought you should know in case you didn’t already! Cheers!
AaronC,
Yes, that 100K mindset can play with your mind…especially with a family vehicle. I have done much as you have done: rack up tons of miles on my work car but try to be more cautious with my family car. Still, one hates to get rid of a great car just because it has a certain number of miles on it.
Thanks for the tip about Googling Windstar recall. I just now did and I found a phone number to call. So I will be following through to see if there are any outstanding recalls for my Windstar. Thanks again for the tip. I hadn’t considered it.
8/15/2011 Follow up on the recall: I did indeed check this out and discovered that my Windstar had two recall notices. Just got them both taken care of, at no expense of course. Thanks again for the tip!
Thank you for this very enjoyable article. I stumbled upon it coincidentally, while doing a search for the expected mileage of my 1992 Honda Accord station wagon. It currently has 282k miles on it, and was bought with 260k showing in the dash for $500. Seven oil changes ($30ea) and 1 timing belt later (I did this myself, at a cost of about $35) it is going strong with no sign of giving out any time soon. I am expecting to reach 350k without any significant repairs, at which time I will look for a lower mileage vehicle to pull the motor from. My car is not classy, but is hardly an eye sore either and I get a lot of satisfaction out of remaining debt free. Cash only deals and a little DIY willpower have become a way of life for me and I could not see it any other way.
My previous vehicle was a 2002 Malibu which I drove for 7yrs. at an original cost of $5000. While I cannot recall the mileage of the car upon purchase, my son obtained it for $1800 with 170k miles on it and needing repairs. A week later, with heads reworked and a new intake gasket and it was back in operation. If he considers getting rid of it before it reaches 250k then he will be in for a scolding from yours truly.
If my figures are correct, my cost for the Honda at current state is about 3.6 cents per mile maintenance included and only stands to go lower from here.
While I understand that such high mileage comes with certain risks and the example that I have shared here is an extreme case, I have found that a knowledgeable person who can do their own repairs and maintenance can not do better than to purchase a vehicle that others might consider to be “end of life”.
Paul,
Glad you enjoyed the article. It seems we are kindred spirits! Also, it was encouraging to hear of the success you are having with your 92 Accord Wagon. My daughter has a 94 Accord Wagon with “only” 200k miles. She just put a new timing belt on it, so it should be good for another 100k. 🙂
I still have that 99 Caddy and I still love it. But the Northstar engine has a head gasket problem that, according the mechanics I have spoken with, cannot be repaired with confidence. Bad news is that a good (Jasper) rebuilt engine, which offers a 36 month, 100k miles warranty, costs over $6,000 including installation. Of course, according to my post, this cost could be justified if I keep driving it. Right now I am still driving it, but on short trips only. The jury is still out on the replacement engine. What would you do?
I think at some point you have to throw in the towel, and $6K for a 99 Caddy is right around “towel throwing” range. 🙂
I know the prices of used cars has gone up quite a bit recently, but there are a number of good, reliable cars you can get in the $6-10K price range. And that’s assuming you get $0 for your Caddy.
And then you could always get this:
http://www.windingroad.com/articles/blogs/flip-this-car-1994-buick-roadmasterpart-6/
Sure, it’s not as posh as the Caddy, but his repair bills have been near zilch and maintenance is sure to be inexpensive because anyone can work on these. 😉
Aaron,
I have reluctantly agreed that putting $6k into a 99 Caddy is, as you say, right around “throwing in the towel” time. I can still drive it locally, and last winter it never overheated a single time, so I will probably nurse it along until such time as I am forced to do something different.
About the Roadmaster…Hey. I have owned two. A sedan and a wagon. I got rid of the sedan because it kept eating fuel pumps. I then drove the wagon for several years, selling it when I bought my Caddy. The body was not great on the wagon, but it was a solid car. I have a friend who owns three Roadmasters; one of which is pristine (about 40k miles on it). He was very disappointed in me when I sold my last one. Right now, I can say that I don’t blame him. The Roadmaster is one of the best cars ever made.